[2-28-11] I am WAY smexier than Penny.

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Postby Alice Macher » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:19 am

showler wrote:She could be annoyed because 1) she's trying to be serious; and 2) she has a little pride and laughing that hard at her "sexiness" offended it a little bit.


That's possible. As I said, she's not a professional therapist, so it may be unrealistic of me to expect objectivity from her in this case.
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Postby Alice Macher » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:35 am

dare wrote:I like Lisa a lot and I'd hate for her to be actually jealous or hurt.


Oh, I'd hate to see her hurt, too. No question. But Aggie hurt her feelings after their almost-kiss, with the "Oh, go to hell" and "Have you just been waiting to plant one on me?" If anything, she probably hurt them even more, given that as they made up moments later, Lisa actually cried a little, something we've otherwise never seen her do, before or since. (After their previous friendship-threatening spat, when Aggie shoved her, Lisa reacted with sullenness, not tears.) And yet they both got past it, and their friendship may have deepened even more as a result. Just as Aggie's friendship with Penny (with all the big differences from that with Lisa) deepened after their argument in "Suspicious Minds."

Granted, jealousy is a different kind of hurt, but it's possible to work through that too. I think Lisa, with all her clowning that puts some people off, is in her own way one of the most mature characters in the comic, so even if I'm right about her motives and feelings here (and there's a very good chance I'm not), Aggie getting with Penny needn't spell the end of her friendship with Lisa.
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Postby dare » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:45 am

Alice Macher wrote:given that as they made up moments later, Lisa actually cried a little, something we've otherwise never seen her do, before or since.


... Holy cow. I hadn't noticed Lisa crying before. Seriously, how oblivious can you be...
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Postby glandy » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:48 am

I really identify with Lisa. Her internet memespeech could really be ironic and it's kinda difficult to pull of some of it verbally. I think she uses humor as a way to keep things from being too serious and in this case tripped either the giggles or hysterical laughter. Likely not quite expected.
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Postby oddtail » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:54 pm

glandy wrote:I really identify with Lisa. Her internet memespeech could really be ironic and it's kinda difficult to pull of some of it verbally.


Irony for the sake of irony? Thanks, but no, it doesn't make it much better in my eyes. Besides, what would the irony consist in?
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Postby Alice Macher » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:59 pm

oddtail wrote:Irony for the sake of irony? Thanks, but no, it doesn't make it much better in my eyes. Besides, what would the irony consist in?


Confusion as to whether she's being ironic? Or is being ironic about being ironic about being... *head asplode*

If I may quote The Simpsons once again...


FIRST TEENAGER: Oh, there's that human cannonball guy. He's cool.

SECOND TEENAGER: Yo dude, are you being sarcastic?

FIRST TEENAGER (sadly): ...I don't even know anymore.
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Postby glandy » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:33 pm

Alice Macher wrote:If I may quote The Simpsons once again...


FIRST TEENAGER: Oh, there's that human cannonball guy. He's cool.

SECOND TEENAGER: Yo dude, are you being sarcastic?

FIRST TEENAGER (sadly): ...I don't even know anymore.

This is precisely it. It's also cool if you can say something ironically ("Home slice" for example) only to later hear someone say it unironically because they picked it up from you.

It's like Dave Chappell and "Zip it up and zip it out!" When you're in the corporate world and have meetings and crap to deal with sometimes it's good to have a side gig of manipulating people to do things you think is funny. Beats jumping out of a window from boredom.
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Postby mindstalk » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:32 pm

oddtail wrote:Not strictly related to the specific strip, but...

...after this strip, I somehow magically went from not being annoyed by Lisa to being EXTREMELY annoyed by Lisa. I tried to figure out the exact reason, and didn't have much luck.

Then I guess it hit me. Did we ever (and I mean, ever) see Lisa be genuinely serious about something? The closest I remember is her talking to newly-lesbian Sara, but even there, she was amused-and-mocking.


She was pretty serious that Aggie's approach to Darren was a bad idea.
She was still mocking about it, but as Russell Baker taught me, there's a difference between serious and somber, or should be. Lisa's style is almost never somber, but her content is often serious, sincerely meant.


Interesting that TC said she's dated a bit off-panel; I'd been wondering. Lisa could be jealous of Aggie for her own self, jealous of Aggie actually getting somewhere rather than being single sisters solidarity, self-conscious about her own attractiveness and thus hurt at Aggie laughing that hard, or just plain annoyed that Aggie is making conversation impossible.
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Postby Heavensrun » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:59 pm

One thing I haven't really seen covered here yet is this:

Lisa offered to kiss Aggie and got shot down. Whether she actually had romantic interest and played it casual to avoid conflict, or whether she actually -was- being casual about it, that was a rejection. It's possible Lisa metabolized that rejection by assuming Aggie just wasn't interested in girls, and -now- she's being hit with the idea that Aggie just wasn't interested in -her-. That's a hit on the self-esteem, whatever her feelings for Aggie are.
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Postby oddtail » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:11 pm

Heavensrun wrote:Lisa offered to kiss Aggie and got shot down. Whether she actually had romantic interest and played it casual to avoid conflict, or whether she actually -was- being casual about it, that was a rejection. It's possible Lisa metabolized that rejection by assuming Aggie just wasn't interested in girls, and -now- she's being hit with the idea that Aggie just wasn't interested in -her-. That's a hit on the self-esteem, whatever her feelings for Aggie are.


It's only a hit to self-esteem if one makes this assumption in the first place.

I find it to be a bad idea to assume that "he/she doesn't want me because, uhhhhh, of Obvious Excuse! Yes!". Then again, Lisa does seem to have a very high opinion of herself.
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Postby mindstalk » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:23 pm

Without any evidence that Aggie likes girls, assuming she doesn't is simply a statistically safe bet, not a sign of inflated ego. It's not symmetric with a guy assuming a girl who rejected him is lesbian.
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Postby sun tzu » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:25 pm

oddtail wrote:
Heavensrun wrote:Lisa offered to kiss Aggie and got shot down. Whether she actually had romantic interest and played it casual to avoid conflict, or whether she actually -was- being casual about it, that was a rejection. It's possible Lisa metabolized that rejection by assuming Aggie just wasn't interested in girls, and -now- she's being hit with the idea that Aggie just wasn't interested in -her-. That's a hit on the self-esteem, whatever her feelings for Aggie are.


It's only a hit to self-esteem if one makes this assumption in the first place.

I find it to be a bad idea to assume that "he/she doesn't want me because, uhhhhh, of Obvious Excuse! Yes!". Then again, Lisa does seem to have a very high opinion of herself.


...She does? :?
I mean, I've never seen her wracked with self-loathing per se, but...
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Postby greenglowinggoo » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:39 pm

dare wrote:
Alice Macher wrote:given that as they made up moments later, Lisa actually cried a little, something we've otherwise never seen her do, before or since.


... Holy cow. I hadn't noticed Lisa crying before. Seriously, how oblivious can you be...


I kinda thought she was fake sniffing. I do that in so called "kodak moments." By that time they'd made up, so I could see her injecting a joke sniff to relieve the tension and move past the seriousness. Of course, as I said earlier, I have a hard time reading Lisa, her being a humor-bot and all.

Maybe I should give Lisa more credit. But I really really don't see jealousy here. It's possible, but I think anybody would be a little irked if somebody laughed at them for 10 minutes.
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Postby Alice Macher » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:40 pm

I've always seen Lisa as someone who's simply comfortable with who she is, neither self-trashing (like Jack or, in a different way, Michelle; also Aggie and Katy-Ann at times) nor self-inflating (like Stan). She talks a blue streak and grabs attention whenever she can because that's who she is, not because she thinks she's God's gift to humankind. She's even shown awareness that her tongue gets ahead of her brain at times.


greenglowinggoo wrote:I kinda thought she was fake sniffing.


Please have a look two strips back. Note her crestfallen reaction to Aggie's accusation in the first panel, and her plain-spoken anger in the fourth panel. Now look at the sniffling strip again. See her facial expression and stance in the first panel as she nervously offers a fist-bump. Lisa is scared shitless. She's terrified that Aggie will break off their friendship, because apart from that shove back in "Awakening," she's never seen Aggie this angry at her before. And as others have said, her friendship with Aggie (let's forget for now my theorizing about her feelings being something more) is the most important thing in the world to Lisa, one of the few things she genuinely cares about.

That sniffle there? That's a real sniffle. Lisa may not be as obviously gushing with tears as Aggie making up with Duane or Penny and Michelle making up, but then that's not her way.
Last edited by Alice Macher on Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mindstalk » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:41 pm

greenglowinggoo wrote:
dare wrote:
Alice Macher wrote:given that as they made up moments later, Lisa actually cried a little, something we've otherwise never seen her do, before or since.


... Holy cow. I hadn't noticed Lisa crying before. Seriously, how oblivious can you be...


I kinda thought she was fake sniffing. I do that in so called "kodak moments." By that time they'd made up, so I could see her injecting a joke sniff to releave the tension and move past the seriousness. Of course, as I said earlier, I have a hard time reading Lisa, her being a humor-bot and all.

Maybe I should give Lisa more credit. But I really really don't see jealousy here. It's possible, but I think anybody would be a little irked if somebody laughed at them for 10 minutes.


I thought she was crying then. Aggie's her one real friendship that we know of, endangering it should shake even Lisa.

I stand by my list of possible reasons for Lisa now.
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