[2-28-11] I am WAY smexier than Penny.

[Sri]

Was Dawson's Creek the first mainstream US TV with gay male kiss? Had an explicit atheist right in the premiere, too, which kept me from turning it off.

I'm not quite sure if it was. I do remember some other show or reality tv event that made a huge deal out of a gay couple at the time. I almost want to say Will and Grace. I almost want to count Queer as Folk but it might be disqualified since it was cable. "

I snipped there in case you can't tell. First gay kiss on TV was actually a real kiss instead of drama. Two guys in the crowd talking to Al Roker outside the Today Show. One of them starts to talk into the microphone and then turns to kiss his boyfriend. Will and Grace did an episode not too long later referencing it but played it for laughs with Will kissing Jack. Dawson's Creek was the first scripted TV show to feature a romantic guy on guy kiss without cutting away.

[Shadrach]

Dawson's Creek holds that honour in terms of live-action scripted TV (episode "True Love," May 24, 2000); however, the pilot of the animated sitcom Mission Hill predated this by several months (September 24, 1999). It's been disputed, however, whether even that was the first scripted romantic man/man kiss on TV. I've seen claims for the second-season Simpsons episode "Simpson and Delilah" (October 18, 1990), in which Homer's assistant Karl kisses him on the lips, although that would've been a "one-way" romantic kiss, since Homer's straight. The Mission Hill kiss in the pilot (and subsequently, IIRC) was, however, mutually romantic, between the older gay couple Gus and Wally. (The series in fact won a GLAAD award for its positive, non-stereotypical portrayal of a gay relationship.)

[sentora]

Dawson's Creek holds that honour in terms of live-action scripted TV (episode "True Love," May 24, 2000); however, the pilot of the animated sitcom Mission Hill predated this by several months (September 24, 1999). It's been disputed, however, whether even that was the first scripted romantic man/man kiss on TV. I've seen claims for the second-season Simpsons episode "Simpson and Delilah" (October 18, 1990), in which Homer's assistant Karl kisses him on the lips, although that would've been a "one-way" romantic kiss, since Homer's straight. The Mission Hill kiss in the pilot (and subsequently, IIRC) was, however, mutually romantic, between the older gay couple Gus and Wally. (The series in fact won a GLAAD award for its positive, non-stereotypical portrayal of a gay relationship.)

They were the first gay couple I remember enjoying on tv, since I refused to watch Dawson's Creek. My friend and I still quote and laugh about the cheap condoms line.

[Shadrach]

They were the first gay couple I remember enjoying on tv, since I refused to watch Dawson's Creek. My friend and I still quote and laugh about the cheap condoms line.

I don't remember that bit, but I do fondly remember the Gus-and-Wally centered episode "Plan 9 from Mission Hill," which not only cleverly satirized the best (The Day the Earth Stood Still) and "worst" (Plan 9 from Outer Space, Robot Monster) of fifties SF film, but was one of the most genuinely touching half hours of TV I've ever watched. Bizarre as those two characters were, they made for a much more true-to-life and heartfelt portrayal of a gay male couple than did Will and...that police officer dude of Will and Grace, or even David and Keith of Six Feet Under. (I admit to never having caught an episode of Queer as Folk, so I don't have any basis for comparison with Mission Hill.)

[Azrael44]

Erm, are we not counting the Dr. Jon Fielding(Billy Campbell) and Michael Tolliver(Marcus D'Amico) kiss from the Tales of the City miniseries from 1994?

[Freemage]

Erm, are we not counting the Dr. Jon Fielding(Billy Campbell) and Michael Tolliver(Marcus D'Amico) kiss from the Tales of the City miniseries from 1994?

Arguably, a miniseries has more freedom to break the rules than a prime-time scripted television show, which is by definition hoping to retain enough of its audience to be picked up for multiple seasons.

[MudFlap33]

Site's been slow for me all evening. I wonder if Gail Simone and things like being mentioned on AfterEllen.com have drive up the traffic considerably?

I'd love to see P&A mentioned on AfterEllen, but my search didn't yield anything recent. Mind sharing the link?

[showler]

It was a "Morning Brew" segment: http://www.afterellen.com/column/mornin ... 2011-02-23

Good mention complete with a copy of the comic itself that should have gotten a lot of attention.

I also added it to a list of webcomics somebody was compiling, but that list is old and rarely updated apparently.

[Auspex]

You've all seen that today's strip showed up on Gail Simone's tumblr, right?

How did I miss that?

[Mr_Rose]

Anyways... the significance of the nekkid Lisa in penny's dream still eludes us... but T never does anything without purpose... I think at least. We shall see...

Oh, truly so...but you forget that "purpose" can include deception...

[MudFlap33]

It was a "Morning Brew" segment: http://www.afterellen.com/column/mornin ... 2011-02-23

Good mention complete with a copy of the comic itself that should have gotten a lot of attention.

I also added it to a list of webcomics somebody was compiling, but that list is old and rarely updated apparently.

Thanks!!

[Alice Macher]

Five hours until the next update... Not enough time to bother running a poll on this, but still, I wonder what we'll see?

Penny having a conversation with Sara about The Kiss, to parallel/contrast the one Aggie just had with Lisa? Or would that be too predictable for T?

Marshall doing...something, maybe speaking for the first time since "The Popsicle War?"

Sara moving closer to "the talk" with Daphne?

Jack brooding more about whether he "deserves" Katy-Ann?

Charisma rocking back and forth compulsively with an eerie grin while thinking, "If I can't have you, Nicky..." (Okay, probably not that one.)

Ooh the suspense...

[Ray Radlein]

Another thought on the poly angle: T has, to be sure, written a healthy, long-lasting poly relationship in Fans. But the ages and social independence of Rikk, Rumy and Ally, as well as the nature of the world they live in, are different from those of Penny, Aggie and Lisa, even if the latter were inclined to fall in love with each other. Their world is much more like our world than that of Fans. And in our world, the two-partner same-sex relationship has had a big enough hurdle to overcome in terms of social acceptance as it is, and it's still far ahead of the poly relationship (same-sex or bi) in that respect. Many people in Western society still have little to no idea that polyamory even exists, and of those who do, many associate it with alleged free-for-all hippie orgies in the commune, with the "swinger" subculture, or with just plain sleeping around. (Even in the more open-minded America of Fans, the Oberfs have faced obstacles in having their relationship recognized legally and socially.) So I don't see T going that route in P&A and making it true to that world.

More to the point, long-term poly relationships are much more common in Fandom than in the real world (and especially more than in suburban high schools, of course).

That was one thing that cropped up when the situation first arose in Faans! -- the readers who had real ties to old-school, hardcore fanzines-and-conrunning Fandom took it a lot more in stride than most readers, because most of us know at least one or two stable poly triads in Fandom now (I can think of an MMF and an MFF with whom I am personally acquainted right off the top of my head, and I am but an egg in fanzine Fandom), to say nothing of some of the other complex arrangements that existed among folks now long departed.

[Mec]

Next arc: based on Meat Loaf's epic first album "Bat Out of Hell".

Cover picture and title song: Fred, bulked up, oiled down, awesome blond hair, blasting that superbike out of the cemetery against a sky of blood. And he's proving the Riemann Hypothesis while he's doing it. (That last part is not on the album, it's just fan service. For me.)

After that, a duet of "You Took the Words Right Out of My Mouth" with Penny and Aggie.

'Heaven can Wait" by Jack.

"All Revved Up With No Place To Go" by Brandi.

"Two out of Three Ain't Bad" by Stan.

"Paradise by the Dashboard Light" by ... Sara and Daphne (?)

"For Crying Out Loud" by ... Charisma (?)

(Why, yes, I do enjoy melodrama.)

[undefinedlust]

Next arc: based on Meat Loaf's epic first album "Bat Out of Hell".

Cover picture and title song: Fred, bulked up, oiled down, awesome blond hair, blasting that superbike out of the cemetery against a sky of blood. And he's proving the Riemann Hypothesis while he's doing it. (That last part is not on the album, it's just fan service. For me.)

After that, a duet of "You Took the Words Right Out of My Mouth" with Penny and Aggie.

'Heaven can Wait" by Jack.

"All Revved Up With No Place To Go" by Brandi.

"Two out of Three Ain't Bad" by Stan.

"Paradise by the Dashboard Light" by ... Sara and Daphne (?)

"For Crying Out Loud" by ... Charisma (?)

(Why, yes, I do enjoy melodrama.)

After that a Meatloaf return in the form of the " a geezer from the freezer like a bat out of hell" scene, with Nick as Dr. F to fit the heads hint from the year opener!!